Nada, this post about Johnny Depp and Courbet reminds me of the frosting that H.D. applied to Ezra Pound’s Labor Day cupcakes (a rich buttercream), also the old jar of pommade in William Burroughs’ bathroom (do you think it was his?), and also of myself, who is me, who has been maligned, neglected, abused, misunderstood, slighted, despaired of, ruined, hated, hacked at, spat upon, stretched on racks, crucified, underdetermined, overdetermined, feathered, eliminated by air-brush, and (frequently) called OBSCENE, and also that I have been no where ever near lighting candles on the birthday cakes of any famous poets, and also that I must try to think of something to say to insult you or your friends so that you will react negatively to me and make me feel real. So, um, “Gary isn’t forty five, he is a porpoise.” If you do not react to this I will keep going until I reap my reward! If you do react to it, I will know you are good for a game and keep going, too. I am afraid I am not very good at hijacking comment threads, or inciting riots, or traveling as a barnacle on the great ship of the internet, or threatening to kill furry animals (or furry people!)if someone does not want my friend at his party, but I want you to feel the THRILL of the alpha, and so consider this a challenge to your territory, somehow, and though I am ill equipped to pee on everything, at least in one of those tidy masculine arcs, though I am trying to offer you this service out of respect, maybe just a puddle.
OH — the acrid stench of your fearsome urine (pronounced to rime with WINE) — I’m shaking in my fluevogs here, honey! Are you implying with your clever comment that no one incites comment wars on my blog because MY POSTS ARE TOO TRIVIAL? I know you didn’t outright say it, buy I could feel the subtext radiating from the steam of your pee. Have you been taking B VITAMINS?I will take up your gauntlet, madame: consider this a grand pronouncement: my triviality trumps Ezra Pound’s radio broadcasts ANY DAY, and I bet I could drink CHARLES OLSON under the table (if the drink in question were, um, pomegranate juice). And Anne, do you have some kind of PROBLEM with Johnny DEPP? Is he just too MAINSTREAM for you, Baroness?
but it is still, to me, distressing that the more visible male-run blogs’ comments fields one by one become pissing grounds for these … …ASSHOLES. Let assholes be assholes, that’s always been my motto, but at the same time they squash the dialogue each & every time. I was never part of pussipo, but did you find that a good solution? On the other hand, even if pussipo worked, it’s tiring for women to have to go off on their own; and it seems that by this time in history we should not have to trundle on off to the hut in order to find a space not overrun with such peacock strutting & pissing vacuous testosteronally imbalanced bullshit. I think I’m too old to just get cynical and not let it bother me.This is all an old topic. Does anybody care about it anymore?
Pussipo quickly became a drag. It’s mainly an academic networking tool now and to me feels like a prim and policed space. That said, I haven’t logged in there for ages. I’ll go there now and have a look around…
One of the ongoing issues of this (as annandale rightly says) old issue is the difficulty of conversation at any time and place, criss-crossed as conversation is with all our various histories, needs, investments, problems, power dynamics, etc–there’s no end to the list of the ways in which people cannot understand each other or come to decide that it isn’t even worth it to try. I don’t have the impression that this issue is going away any time soon.But Nada, in your opinion, are people more likely to act out at parties or in blog comment boxes? Or are there key ways in which they act out differently? Obviously these are ridiculous questions, so I would greatly appreciate your most honest answer.
I think people are much more likely to act out in comment boxes. From what I’ve heard, Kent Johnson is a rather pleasant person in person. Other swaggerers whom I’d sooner not name are, if not pleasant, at least not so markedly unpleasant.Don’t you think that people seem to behave as if the cyber-world were a fake world? And to hyper-theatricalize their self-representations? That isn’t always a bad thing; I think when I do it it’s actually kind of funny, even if it does contribute to a problematic form of auto-branding.
I should add that I really love Courbet and Johnny Depp. Of course I loved Courbet before Johnny Depp showed up on the scene.
I don’t think pussipo was ever meant to be a utopian solution, but some very useful things come from the discussion (or at least have been showing up lately for me in re to my nardi research). It was started as an “experiment” & I had no idea what the results would be, and the results have been mixed — some angry threats from outside, a few inner-eruptions, some rich discussion, lots of “networking”, some lulls — as I guess would be predictable. I feel very detached from it (as I guess is also predictable). I was, and still am, reluctant around sex-selected spaces, and with the exception of one listserv, dislike the form, so it was a big leap for me to start it & see what happened. I’ve become inured to blog scandal, mainly just because it makes for generally unsatisfying reading. My favorite people are those whose online behavior most matches their offline behavior: those blogs I read. As far as the people in this comment box, I can vouch both Nada and Mark are beautiful everywhere. xoAnne
Mark, flutter your eyelashes! I’m fluttering mine!I’m sorry, Anne, to have been snotty about pussipo. Now and then there is something of interest to me there (like a link to MARIE OSMOND reading a piece by HUGO BALL — whoa!). It’s just not as interesting as the pages I’ve been checking out, say, this evening, that is, those that explore the FIMO vs. SCULPEY debate.I haven’t tried FIMO but I made a very nice necklace with my first batch of SCULPEY beads. It may look a little like a necklace that a thirteen-year-old girl might have made in camp in 1978 but I still like it.Anne, what or who is Nardi?
behavior is definitely worse on the internet. many sociologists (hmm) have written many papers. they are easy to find by searching “disinhibition” and “internet.” it’s so common it’s got a name, whee!< HREF="http://www.netsafe.org.nz/research/research_disinhibition.aspx" REL="nofollow">a link<>< HREF="http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/5188" REL="nofollow">another link<>< HREF="http://cyberbully.org/cyberbully/docs/disinhibition.pdf" REL="nofollow">a pdf paper by Nancy Willard, MS JD<>most of the studies/papers that i’ve looked into focus on teen and tween offenders and victims. uh, but i think we can safely surmise some people don’t grow out of it.
Ten comments! I’m so happy! Keep it coming, people.
it’s called “flirting” or “harassment”–take your pick. 😉
When I read ab’s kind comments, I think I involuntarily flexed my left bicep. Flexing a bicep is the male equivalent of fluttering the eyelashes. Next time you see a man flex a bicep, tell him to stop fluttering his eyelashes at you. And remember what Brady Anderson said (was he the greatest gay player in the history of baseball?) with disdain: “Biceps are for the beach.”I certainly agree that many people act like the cyberworld is a fake world. But I think I would add: it’s a fake world to which they apply their real desires. And one of those desires (which many people have, maybe not all, but I’ll include myself) is the desire to say what you want without consequences. That’s not really possible, of course. But the very fact of its impossibility is what makes it so attractive. Sometimes, the internet comment box seems so close to being something that people want but can’t have. It’s only you, your words, and all that white space.I have to say though: I’ve been to a lot of parties where people, men and women both, have behaved in wildly disgraceful (as Frank O’Hara might have said) ways. Those behaviors probably become less common as we get older and realize that acting out around other people has painful consequences. But maybe those of us who have become too “mature” for bad behavior at parties haven’t lost the desire for such behavior entirely? Might it be said (and I’m not speaking of anyone particular here) that some people treat the internet as the kind of party where you can still behave badly and not suffer too much for it? That therefore the frustration on the Internet that a lot of us have experienced, whether when behaving badly or experiencing other people’s bad behavior, is the realization that you can’t escape consequences for your behavior? And what a drag that is!
I’m curious about the idea of the internet not being a perceived “fake” space, but being more of a sparring ground. I’m not putting a value on this idea, or whether it’s unique to male behavior, the shift intrigues me. And where exactly do polemical lines and dialog converge with mudslinging or flaming?
Otohime 
Nada, this post about Johnny Depp and Courbet reminds me of the frosting that H.D. applied to Ezra Pound’s Labor Day cupcakes (a rich buttercream), also the old jar of pommade in William Burroughs’ bathroom (do you think it was his?), and also of myself, who is me, who has been maligned, neglected, abused, misunderstood, slighted, despaired of, ruined, hated, hacked at, spat upon, stretched on racks, crucified, underdetermined, overdetermined, feathered, eliminated by air-brush, and (frequently) called OBSCENE, and also that I have been no where ever near lighting candles on the birthday cakes of any famous poets, and also that I must try to think of something to say to insult you or your friends so that you will react negatively to me and make me feel real. So, um, “Gary isn’t forty five, he is a porpoise.” If you do not react to this I will keep going until I reap my reward! If you do react to it, I will know you are good for a game and keep going, too. I am afraid I am not very good at hijacking comment threads, or inciting riots, or traveling as a barnacle on the great ship of the internet, or threatening to kill furry animals (or furry people!)if someone does not want my friend at his party, but I want you to feel the THRILL of the alpha, and so consider this a challenge to your territory, somehow, and though I am ill equipped to pee on everything, at least in one of those tidy masculine arcs, though I am trying to offer you this service out of respect, maybe just a puddle.
OH — the acrid stench of your fearsome urine (pronounced to rime with WINE) — I’m shaking in my fluevogs here, honey! Are you implying with your clever comment that no one incites comment wars on my blog because MY POSTS ARE TOO TRIVIAL? I know you didn’t outright say it, buy I could feel the subtext radiating from the steam of your pee. Have you been taking B VITAMINS?I will take up your gauntlet, madame: consider this a grand pronouncement: my triviality trumps Ezra Pound’s radio broadcasts ANY DAY, and I bet I could drink CHARLES OLSON under the table (if the drink in question were, um, pomegranate juice). And Anne, do you have some kind of PROBLEM with Johnny DEPP? Is he just too MAINSTREAM for you, Baroness?
but it is still, to me, distressing that the more visible male-run blogs’ comments fields one by one become pissing grounds for these … …ASSHOLES. Let assholes be assholes, that’s always been my motto, but at the same time they squash the dialogue each & every time. I was never part of pussipo, but did you find that a good solution? On the other hand, even if pussipo worked, it’s tiring for women to have to go off on their own; and it seems that by this time in history we should not have to trundle on off to the hut in order to find a space not overrun with such peacock strutting & pissing vacuous testosteronally imbalanced bullshit. I think I’m too old to just get cynical and not let it bother me.This is all an old topic. Does anybody care about it anymore?
Pussipo quickly became a drag. It’s mainly an academic networking tool now and to me feels like a prim and policed space. That said, I haven’t logged in there for ages. I’ll go there now and have a look around…
One of the ongoing issues of this (as annandale rightly says) old issue is the difficulty of conversation at any time and place, criss-crossed as conversation is with all our various histories, needs, investments, problems, power dynamics, etc–there’s no end to the list of the ways in which people cannot understand each other or come to decide that it isn’t even worth it to try. I don’t have the impression that this issue is going away any time soon.But Nada, in your opinion, are people more likely to act out at parties or in blog comment boxes? Or are there key ways in which they act out differently? Obviously these are ridiculous questions, so I would greatly appreciate your most honest answer.
I think people are much more likely to act out in comment boxes. From what I’ve heard, Kent Johnson is a rather pleasant person in person. Other swaggerers whom I’d sooner not name are, if not pleasant, at least not so markedly unpleasant.Don’t you think that people seem to behave as if the cyber-world were a fake world? And to hyper-theatricalize their self-representations? That isn’t always a bad thing; I think when I do it it’s actually kind of funny, even if it does contribute to a problematic form of auto-branding.
I should add that I really love Courbet and Johnny Depp. Of course I loved Courbet before Johnny Depp showed up on the scene.
I don’t think pussipo was ever meant to be a utopian solution, but some very useful things come from the discussion (or at least have been showing up lately for me in re to my nardi research). It was started as an “experiment” & I had no idea what the results would be, and the results have been mixed — some angry threats from outside, a few inner-eruptions, some rich discussion, lots of “networking”, some lulls — as I guess would be predictable. I feel very detached from it (as I guess is also predictable). I was, and still am, reluctant around sex-selected spaces, and with the exception of one listserv, dislike the form, so it was a big leap for me to start it & see what happened. I’ve become inured to blog scandal, mainly just because it makes for generally unsatisfying reading. My favorite people are those whose online behavior most matches their offline behavior: those blogs I read. As far as the people in this comment box, I can vouch both Nada and Mark are beautiful everywhere. xoAnne
Mark, flutter your eyelashes! I’m fluttering mine!I’m sorry, Anne, to have been snotty about pussipo. Now and then there is something of interest to me there (like a link to MARIE OSMOND reading a piece by HUGO BALL — whoa!). It’s just not as interesting as the pages I’ve been checking out, say, this evening, that is, those that explore the FIMO vs. SCULPEY debate.I haven’t tried FIMO but I made a very nice necklace with my first batch of SCULPEY beads. It may look a little like a necklace that a thirteen-year-old girl might have made in camp in 1978 but I still like it.Anne, what or who is Nardi?
behavior is definitely worse on the internet. many sociologists (hmm) have written many papers. they are easy to find by searching “disinhibition” and “internet.” it’s so common it’s got a name, whee!< HREF="http://www.netsafe.org.nz/research/research_disinhibition.aspx" REL="nofollow">a link<>< HREF="http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/5188" REL="nofollow">another link<>< HREF="http://cyberbully.org/cyberbully/docs/disinhibition.pdf" REL="nofollow">a pdf paper by Nancy Willard, MS JD<>most of the studies/papers that i’ve looked into focus on teen and tween offenders and victims. uh, but i think we can safely surmise some people don’t grow out of it.
Ten comments! I’m so happy! Keep it coming, people.
it’s called “flirting” or “harassment”–take your pick. 😉
When I read ab’s kind comments, I think I involuntarily flexed my left bicep. Flexing a bicep is the male equivalent of fluttering the eyelashes. Next time you see a man flex a bicep, tell him to stop fluttering his eyelashes at you. And remember what Brady Anderson said (was he the greatest gay player in the history of baseball?) with disdain: “Biceps are for the beach.”I certainly agree that many people act like the cyberworld is a fake world. But I think I would add: it’s a fake world to which they apply their real desires. And one of those desires (which many people have, maybe not all, but I’ll include myself) is the desire to say what you want without consequences. That’s not really possible, of course. But the very fact of its impossibility is what makes it so attractive. Sometimes, the internet comment box seems so close to being something that people want but can’t have. It’s only you, your words, and all that white space.I have to say though: I’ve been to a lot of parties where people, men and women both, have behaved in wildly disgraceful (as Frank O’Hara might have said) ways. Those behaviors probably become less common as we get older and realize that acting out around other people has painful consequences. But maybe those of us who have become too “mature” for bad behavior at parties haven’t lost the desire for such behavior entirely? Might it be said (and I’m not speaking of anyone particular here) that some people treat the internet as the kind of party where you can still behave badly and not suffer too much for it? That therefore the frustration on the Internet that a lot of us have experienced, whether when behaving badly or experiencing other people’s bad behavior, is the realization that you can’t escape consequences for your behavior? And what a drag that is!
I’m curious about the idea of the internet not being a perceived “fake” space, but being more of a sparring ground. I’m not putting a value on this idea, or whether it’s unique to male behavior, the shift intrigues me. And where exactly do polemical lines and dialog converge with mudslinging or flaming?